More Than Middlemen: Demystifying Insurance Marketing

Bill: So, probably the fact that it’s Tim and I doing the podcast today viewers at home might be thinking, “are we going to talk about fantasy football?”

Tim: Or hunting.

Bill: Or hunting. Or fishing!

Tim: Fishing or hockey.

Bill: Or hockey.

Tim: We talk a lot about hockey.

Bill: We do talk a lot about hockey. But, you know, Bruins aren’t doing great so it’s not… it’s kind of a sore subject right now.

Tim: How is your playoffs going?

Bill: Also not great. So for those who don’t know I-I play in a rec league. Um, we won the cup last year, and we’re in the game for the bottom spot. So, yeah, real quick reversal in reversal and fortunes.

Tim: First to last.

Bill: Yeah, we just didn’t want it.

Tim: Yeah, no hunger.

Bill: The hunger was out.

Tim: No fire in the belly.

Bill: We took the off-season the two week off-season and went to the beach and then we were just… Yeah didn’t have it. You may have noticed we took a little bit of a hiatus at the beginning of the year personal things in the office and then just resources were a little bit behind, but we’re back! And we have some exciting things in 2025 including this first podcast to-of the year and I like to say, it’s raining men!

Tim: It’s our first time—It’s my first time!

Bill: Tim’s first time on the podcast, and it’s our first all male podcast.

Tim: It’s a–It’s a landmark we’ll have to record this…

Bill: Yeah, so, I’m sorry for all the people that are just stopping right now when they realize Kristy is not on the podcast today and just feeling like they’ve been robbed. I get those feelings.

Tim: I hope everyone’s yeah… I hope everyone’s not too surprised and shocked by this.

Bill: Actually, I think what we are going to talk about today is really specific to what we do at Seapoint. Um, I know people follow us for a variety of different tips, a variety of different industries that we work with but specifically Tim and I just got back from PIMA in Clearwater, Florida—their winter conference. I thought it’d be a great time to talk a little bit about insurance affiliate marketing. So, Tim, do you know what PIMA stands for?

Tim: I believe it stands for Professional Insurance Marketers Association or Marketing.

Bill: Yeah, I think so too. You know what’s really funny, is I just went on PIMA’s website and I was like, I need to double check what PIMA stands for, and I could not find it anywhere on the website!

Tim: It’s not on their website?

Bill: No!

Tim: I know I googled it like a year ago and that’s how I found out.

Bill: Yeah.

Tim: Cuz I could never remember what the P stood for.

Bill: Yep. Professional.

Tim: Professional.

Bill: Like us.

Tim: Yep.

Bill: Yeah. Um, so yeah it’s interesting PIMA—great organization for what we work with in insurance marketing—so in insurance marketing we think about how do people buy insurance? And sometimes you have your local neighborhood agent, right?

Tim: Mhmm.

Bill: Um, who shows up at your kids soccer games, hockey games maybe, I don’t know what local agents do anymore. Do you?

Tim: Uh, no, I-I don’t know what they do. I guess, they probably have an office, but nobody ever goes to it anymore.

Bill: Probably right about that. I say that, but my wife works in insurance at a traditional agency.

Tim: Yeah, but does anybody go and say to her office and say, “Amanda I want insurance.”

Bill: No, nobody ever does that.

Tim: Yeah.

Bill: No. They call, they do Zoom meetings. Yeah. You don’t–you don’t need to travel anymore. But, so with that insurance—that’s one way, also have people buy their insurance online through just faceless self-service—Uh, but what we’ve worked a lot with is affinity marketing. So it’s kind of interesting, is… Tim, what comes to your mind when people talk about affinity marketing?

Tim: Uh, the word that comes to mind is middleman. So, there’s a middleman, or really it would be a like… a company that play–that’s in between that sells the insurance for, and behind that is a larger carrier, like prudential or these big names All State whatever it might be, they’re the ones providing the insurance, but there’s somebody in between that uh is the actual one selling it.

Bill: Right, so you may have heard that expression affinity marketing, and usually when it is used in a broad context it-it’s-it’s kind of a buzzword right now where a lot of people feel like they’re getting into this thing where they’re going to promote on their social channels a product or an object or service and they’re-they’re selling that, and there’s a lot of like kind of quick get-rich-quick schemes right now about affinity marketing. So, just wanted to kind of mention, like, what we’re talking about is something very different. And the idea of that expression of you have affinity for something, well you have a… you’re drawn to it, you’re connected with other people to an idea, so we think about affinity groups—It could be something like… Tim, could be… Is there, like, a national fishing association?

Tim: Oh, there’s many.

Bill: Many?

Tim: Trout Unlimited. There’s North America’s Sportsman’s Angler Society. Of course, BASS, Bass Angler Sportsman Society. You name it, there’s probably one for it.

Bill: I was-I was like, “I wonder if there’s like the NRA of fishing?” So I guess there’s,

Tim: Oh there’s tons

Bill: Yeah, there’s tons of them.

Tim: It’s very specific.

Bill: Yeah, so you think about that. Tim loves fishing, as you can tell he knows all those associations, uh the idea is that you’re connected to an association—whether in some cases it’s a leisure association, like you love fishing, maybe you love hunting and you’re an NRA member—uh, but often times those associations are also connected by your profession. So, like what would be some of those Tim?

Tim: Associations for your professions… Oh, well there there’s an association for just about every type of professional. Like if you’re say a doctor then you might have an association for the area you work in, but there’s also for your specialty. So, there’s-there’s that for… of course we work with-with physicians in that area—in the state of Texas—but you carry that over to just about any profession. There would be one for lawyers, there’d be one for realtors on and on it goes.

Bill: Yeah. So that’s really what it comes down to as far as PIMA and our going down to Florida that conference, it-it’s-it’s really the leaders in that space of insurance, but not just insurance as a product for general distribution, but, again, both selling insurance and marketing insurance to these groups,of people that have that affinity whether it’s because, you know, they work in it as a professionals—such as the we work with the Texas Medical Association insurance trust and they work directly to provide insurance for physicians. So, it’s not just the marketing of it but it’s also the product development, because you think about an association has the ability to tailor products for that association, for the needs of the people. Uh, they might have specific needs that other groups may not have.

Tim: Right, yeah. So, there’s that and then there’s also the relationship that they have with them, so there’s a certain level of trust, so when they’re part of this association, um—as you mentioned—they’re more familiar with it, but they’ll be more apt to buy something from them because they already have that relationship. Um, whereas they’re not just starting a new from some faceless company.

Bill: Yeah. With that, so going to PIMA, you’ve been… PIMA has two conferences a year. So, I just plug for PIMA, It’s great organization they do not only a lot of education in-between but they put on a biannual really excellent in-person programs. And how many have you been to at this point?

Tim: I’ve been to three now.

Bill: Three. So, I know we took Courtney to her first PIMA.

Tim: Yep.

Bill: And she was-she was super excited. Uh, what were your highlights from this winter PIMA.

Tim: Um, from this past winter one, I would say… uh… I think that the conferences that they had, or the shows–the programs that they had, specifically with regard to the generations I thought that was very interesting. And that’s kind of what so now it’s like everything I look at I look at okay what-what are Gen Y’s doing? What are millennials, what are gen X’s doing? And and then there… that also opens up other conversations like, you know, Gen X’s are obviously kind of pigeonholed into certain things and how they react to things but does that change over time? In other words, do Gen X’s become boomers when they get to be the boomer’s age now? Um, so, yeah, it was interesting, and of course the-the context of the generational—breaking everything down into generations—was-wasn’t like you might think, like how you going to sell insurance to them? The context was how are you going to make the insurance industry appealing to them? Because the insurance industry is really worried about who’s going to work in that industry in the future, because they anticipate I think the number they threw out was like 400,000 professionals are going to exit that industry in the next year. Who’s going to replace them, because who wants to go into insurance? It’s not exactly the most exciting thing out there. Um, so again how do you market, not-not trying to sell, but trying to get them to work in that field and, again, appealing to those generations the younger ones obviously.

*10:30*

Bill: Yeah, I thought that was an-an—I thought that was an excellent point. And, you know, it’s interesting-it’s interesting, like, you think about our evolution to working in this affinity insurance space as far as marketing and Seapoint’s really kind of honed in in that specific industry, in that subset of the industry, and it’s not something we would have had on our radar,

Tim: right

Bill: 5 years, ago 10 years ago. Um, really when we started working with a few clients in the space and understood the really unique propositions that it brings both for marketing and for-for product development in the space. It is something that needs to educate people because the industry does need… it needs the leaders of kind of that next generation.

Tim: Yeah, and it’s an interesting topic because, you know, you think about other professions like, you know, somebody’s going into college years and they think, “I want to be a lawyer,” or that, “I want to be a doctor.” Nobody ever says that about insurance, and, so, and they know that. So, they have to figure out where are these bright young professionals going to come from.

Bill: Yeah, I thought that was interesting. And it was, they-they interviewed a younger man who just got out of college and he was saying his pathway of of coming into it and it really took people kind of like boots on the ground at the university talking about how… you know, it was interesting like he didn’t remember anything from the actual like what they did for work, he kind of honed in on some of the things that were like the perks or seemed kind of lavish about working in insurance which I thought was kind of funny. Um,

Tim: Yeah, I think he was talking about spending an afternoon on somebody’s yacht in Miami.

Bill: Yeah, that was-that was the selling point for him.

Tim: Yeah.

Bill: Which is interesting, because I-I do find you go to these conferences especially like with PIMA and there is a lot of bright articulate people that have been drawn to the industry, and-and and meeting these individuals but they’ve all kind of come from non-traditional paths. They’re just not, you know, as you said, they didn’t just wake up and been like, “you know what, I just, I can’t wait to… my future in the insurance industry.”

Tim: Yeah, that was one of the things they did is they did a live poll right there for us, and we all just, “how did you get into the industry?” Of course, we’re marketing, so we didn’t answer but those who did the overwhelming majority was they fell into it. So,

Bill: And, I mean, we fell into it as well.

Tim: Sure.

Bill: In reality. Because, again, Seapoint’s got clients in other sectors but it just found something that we really-really understood that there was kind of a… there was a need in marketing in the infinity space.

Tim: Yeah, absolutely.

Bill: I do think it’s to me it’s really interesting is that you have this well-established industry subset in the ind… in the insurance industry of working, you know, packaging things in the infinity space. Uh, but a lot of how it’s been marketed is-by is 10 to 15 years old tactics; like really that dependence on direct mail. Uh, it’s interesting that there hasn’t… well the industry is trying to recruit younger people, and forward thinkers, and you see that like as far as people are talking about products. Um, I thought—I always find it really interesting too, some of these products that come and I was thinking for instance, the-the gamification. Uh, the people that were talking about gamification of health. Um, things to keep people moving, and lowering their risk, and insurance. Like, you have those people there on the product side, but it-it hasn’t really gotten that adoption in-in the marketing side kind of tactic-wise.

Tim: Yeah, that’s—it’s all very interesting. Um, let’s define gamification, because there’s-there’s different…there’s different parts of that. Of course, there’s different terminologies but gamification, define that for us, Bill.

Bill: So, in-in this context, there was—there’s vendors that have been talking about, for instance, activities. Um, you know, again, health insurance, the risks of your lifestyle—you know, people that are just behind the desk—so, the idea that, hey, if you hit a certain amount of walking points. Like turning it into app—into a game, you know? Really, it’s-it’s the motivate us, as the end user, to do something not because we’re being told to but the incentivization. Like, I think most of us have our smart watches and mine yaps at me every…

Tim: Stand up, time to stand up.

Bill: Stand up. Go take walks. You haven’t walked enough, and, you know, and I, like, kind of I feel resentful for it sometimes. Right? Like don’t tell me what to to watch. You’re not the boss of me. But, you know,that idea of turning it into a game, like now you’re competing or now you’re trying to you know reach certain rewards, it’s like turning-turning in your your health into Candy Crush.

Tim: Yeah. Exactly.

Bill: Yes. So, PIMA they’ve been a great partner. Really enjoy them as association Um, I think that, you know, they put on some really top-notch programs. So this summer is their 50th,

Tim: In Kansas City.

Bill: in Kansas City. So,

Tim: It’s where it started, that’s why, not because Kansas City is, like, an exciting place. Not that it isn’t!

Bill: Oh, come on. Kansas City Tourism Board, we’re here for you!

Tim: Yeah. Exactly.

Bill: Yes.

Tim: But, that’s where PIMA started, so they go back to their roots for their 50th.

Bill: Yes. It was kind of, I think everyone was like, “where are we going to go for summer PIMA, ” and thought it’d be some like exotic location and then it was like Kansas City.

Tim: Kansas City. Yeah. I know one of our clients was hoping it would be in Hawaii, but it’s in Kansas City.

Bill: Yes. So, all right, but if you were going to give a quick elevator pitch. Maybe somebody who is working works in insurance, maybe has an affinity group like let’s talk TPAs, right—Third party administrators—uh, that may not engage with PIMA, what would be your sales pitch to tell people to come to PIMA this summer ?

Tim: Come to PIMA. So, yeah, PIMA’s all in one place… And what you’ll see at PIMA is obviously there’s-there’s different people. You have the carriers, you have marketers like us, and you have the affinity folks themselves, the entities but you also have the people some of them are TPAs, uh others just have a new product that they’re trying to sell and they’re there and that’s primarily why they’re there. And you can pick those guys out of a crowd. They-they’re out there, they’ve got an agenda and they want to sell. But that’s really not what PIMA is all about. PIMA is really for networking. So, you can get a broad overview and so you can see all of those different levels of it. And it’s just and-and you’ll see, you’ll have people that are in direct competition with one another, but they sit there they bounce ideas off one another—the collaboration—and really that’s what-what PIMA is all about.

Bill: Yeah, that’s I think what I’ve really enjoyed about it as well. You know, we’ve been involved in PIMA I think about four years now. Uh, that as a-a group of professionals again they’re competitors and yet everyone is extremely welcoming there’s not a lot of ego involved everyone’s willing to help each other out and I-I just find it a very unique structure that they have there. And I agree with you it’s-it’s kind of funny because you get like that occasional person who’s very like they showed up to sell like a salesperson and they’re very, very aggressive even like meeting people and it’s almost like it it’s a little jarring because the—that’s not the feel of it.

Tim: Yeah, that’s not the vibe. And-and especially if, just to warn people, if you’re going there for the first time they sometimes what they do—or most times what they do—is the first breakfast that they have they have the-the first timer’s table. And, so, you go, you sit there, and you’re kind of nervous because you’ll, if you’re early like me, you’ll be the only one sitting there, but everyone, like you said, is very welcoming. They’ll come up, they’ll approach you, they’ll even if they’re not a first-timer they’ll see that you’re sitting there by yourself and they’ll come and say hi, introduce themselves and, you know, like-like you said it’s not… they’re very welcoming. They’re not just trying to sell something or have some sort of agenda. They just want to meet everybody there.

Bill: Yeah, it’s such a great… I, we talk about networking you know, not just networking of meeting people that may have a business opportunity for you. I-I think just the overall networking of meeting people that are extremely seasoned, you know—a lot of seasuite in the insurance space—that have years and years of experience and it’s a very unique situation where you’re able to get some one-on-one time to, like, the growth of it. Um, I think it to me has really been the-the most valuable part about it.

Tim: Yeah. Yeah, I can definitely see that, and-and it’s not all about work, obviously that’s your focus, but, you know, there’s an opportunity… They have an app where you can put in your personal interests and then you can-you can sort everybody there with that interest and I had a guy looking me up that noticed that I was a fly fisherman, so he wanted to get together. I-I looked for him forever, I never did find him, but we had gone back and forth quite a bit about where we were. so there’s there’s uh there’s lots of opportunities even for that sort of thing

*20:13*
Bill: Yeah, totally-totally agree. Also wasn’t bad to go to Florida in January.

Tim: Absolutely. Absolutely. We had we had some nice weather. The water wasn’t warm,

Bill: The water was not warm.

Tim: but, we did have some nice days.

Bill: Yeah, but at least not to have all the snow that we got-got hit up here in the Northeast this winter.

Tim: It’s nice to get to Florida in January, that’s for sure.

Bill: Yeah, so, good job PIMA not scheduling a January in Michigan PIMA.

Tim: Exactly. Next year’s Cape Coral, so,

Bill: Yeah, another Florida one for the winter.

Tim: hopefully even warmer.

Bill: Yep. So, alright, well, I think we—I think we did a nice—I think we did a… I think we did a… justice to a review of our PIMA conference this winter.

Tim: I think so. I think everybody gets a much better idea of what-what the conference is all about.

Bill: And, also, I think just understanding what we do at Seapoint in that insurance space because we do have clients that are a traditional agency insurance clients but specific when we might write blogs or talk about the affinity space, I thought it was a good opportunity for us to talk about kind of that demarcation that when we talk about affinity marketing we’re not talking about what many people have in mind of this idea of, like, drop shipping on Amazon and-and, you know, using their social channels to promote these things or you know kind of that idea of, you know, the get-rich-quick idea. What we’re talking about is a very specific group of insurance marketing and-and tactics and it’s-it’s a very different things

Tim: Yeah, absolutely.

Bill: So, well, thanks for joining us today on our all things insurance marketing episode, and our also getting Tim on his first podcast.

Tim: Yeah, it’s about time. They’ve been hiding me in a closet all these-all these months but I finally got in front of the camera.

Bill: Disappointed it wasn’t Christy interviewing Tim, but I have a feeling that’s coming up at some point.

Tim: Okay… I don’t know what we’re gonna talk about, but,

Bill: I don’t either.

Tim: we’ll find something.

Bill: Yes. We’re gonna be talking all about account management. Maybe we get you and Courtney and you guys can hash out, like, account management.

Tim: Account management. Maybe when Mark’s here, the three of us could jump on.

Bill: Oh man. That would be great!

Tim: Yeah.

Bill: Yeah.

Tim: We should do that.

Bill: The accounts team. But, just as a note with that thanks for those who are tuning in and were wondering maybe what happened to us the last couple months. Just to let you know, we do have a lot of exciting things coming up in the podcast this year. Uh, both talking about tactics in marketing, and then what agency life is like and for the first time we’re going to actually do a podcast on the road this spring. Uh, Christy and I are going to film a podcast in France!

Tim: Oh my goodness, that’s right!

Bil: Yes. Yes.

Tim: That’s perfect!

Bill: We plan on eating baguettes with berets and

Tim: Oh you got to wear a beret both of you.

Bill: Yes. And-and-and-and, you know, put in the comments any other French stereotypes you’d like us to include in our-in our French podcast. And it’s-it’s going to be awesome.

Tim: Yeah. Looking forward to that one.

Bill: Yeah. All right, ‘till next time everyone.

Tim: Bye, everybody!

Bill: Free dive podcast.